Howdy Neighbors.

Ok - - We've got our Four-Power-Tools based on the bariatric practice standard FOUR RULES . . .

Protein First
Lots of Water
No Snacking
Daily Exercise

The most hotly contested of the *rules* is "NO Snacking." So here in the Neighborhood we are advancing our lives beyond one year, two years, three years or more post-op . . . Is snacking a DO or a DON'T?

Should the *NO SNACKING* rule be changed to the *SMART SNACKING* power tool?

Answer the poll and enter your feedback as a reply to this post. Folks, this is YOUR Neighborhood! What works for you?



Disclaimer - - Always ALWAYS follow your specific WLS Center guidelines early post-op and during the phase of weight loss.

I wouldn't call it "Smart Snacking", but would call it "Planned Snacks". Smart Snacking would make me think of justifying the mindless eating of healthy foods. The key, to me, is to end the mindless part.

Hi Kim - -

I agree on one level, but on the other not.

I do not need a planned snack every day or even twice a day. In fact, I personally seldom need a snack. But on the days I do need something then it should be a SMART Snack - - If I have a *planned* snack does that tell my love-to-be-obese brain that I *MUST* eat the snack because it is *PLANNED* vs. intaking a *SMART* snack when my body tells me, "hey-you! I'm hungry here and nutritionally weak - help me out!"


x x x x feedback please. . . .

I find that the more protein I get in a meal makes me last until the next meal and that helps. I tried the planned snack thing and found myself snacking, while on healthy stuff, when I was not hungry. So now, if I get hungry in between meals, I try and make sure it is a protein bar or some such so I guess in essense I am practicing a little of both. :huh:

I vote for Smart Snacking.

For me, sometimes if it is a "planned" snack then I feel like I need to eat it. Also, if it is planned, I feel I am entitled to eat it even if I'm not hungry just because I planned for it. If I'm hungry (true physical hunger and not my head blabbing at me) and I haven't planned for a snack, I'll eat something small and healthy to curb the body hunger I'm feeling. The key for me is smart=healthy.

The great thing about being as far post-op as we are with some wls experience under our skinny belted waists is the acknowledgement that we are all different, and can respect what works for some of us might not work for others.

How nice to be able to voice what each of us do without a flame torch reply post as on other support boards.

Thanks, Shannon

Either way planned or smart snacking you sort of giving yourself permission to snack. The last thing I need is to give my self the license to snack.

Now with planned snacking. I assume this is like having 6 little meals a day. So are we calling it a snack when we have a protein bar or shake? or does it count as one of the 6 meals? Thus it's a planned meal and not a snack.

Okay I think it should stay NO SNACKING. BUT IF YOU MUST SNACK:
These are healthy choices: ..........


Sound confusing, it's because I am confused. :P

I typed up a huge response to this and just deleted it because I realize that I'm pretty new to post op life, so I'm still at the phase where snacking is strictly verbotten to me. I can barely eat my 3 oz of protein 3x a day, let alone trying to find the time to get more down. When I have been post op for 10 years, I'm hoping that I'll have found a system that works perfectly for me. But for now, while I'm still losing my last 10 pounds, I'll stick with my surgeon's hardline: NO SNACKS/NADA/ZILCH (and try not to cheat).

I say go with "smart snacking" - if you must snack that is. I have found that I feel the need for a snack around 3pm on the days that I work... now that does not mean that I am hungry, just that I need a snack. I have tried to just say no but I end up, more times than not, getting one anyway. Since I bring my food from home, when I don't bring something to snack on, I end up going to the store, or eating what I can scrounge in the breakroom and from the coworkers - and trust me that's not healthy! I also for some reason end up eating more...
The past few days I have brought "smart snacks" to work and I actually feel a freedom. I give myself permission to enjoy a healthy snack in the afternoon. So far it is working great!
As far as long term weight control each of us will have different needs and, as Shannon so wisely pointed out "...what works for some of us, might not work for others." - so true! We each need to find what works for us and stick with it!

~L

I am sitting here at work, I have just finished my lunch, and I realized something else "smart snacking" has done for me.
One of my greatest fears is that I will be hungry (now, I am a compulsive overeater so I have some irrational thoughts about food sometimes), so when I make my lunch to bring into work I make sure that I have enough food. I sure would hate to feel a hunger pang and have no way to satiate it...lol. Anyway, before, when I was trying not to snack at all, I would eat my lunch, and I made sure that I ate enough that I felt FULL because it had to last me until dinner time. Today when I finished my lunch I realized that I was not full full (I have recently started weighing my food instead of measuring it - something else I learned in this awsome neighborhood) but that was OK because I have my afternoon snack later to tide me over until dinner.
I like this "smart snacking" idea...

~L

Okay...I've been dwelling on this topic. I'm not going to call my in between meals snacks. I need them and I am going to call them meals instead of snacks. During the work week, I'm up at 4am. I have breakfast at 6am and don't have lunch until noon. Six hours is too long for me to go without additional fuel. At 9am I have my planned meal. It used to be a protein bar, now it's real food. Two ounces of chicken with some veggies or a boiled egg and a piece of string cheese. Something along those lines. Dinner is at 7pm. I need to eat another meal in between those hours. At 3pm I have a meal that is similar to my mid-morning meal. I eat 5 times a day. 6am, 9am, 12pm, 3pm and 7pm. If I skip my 3pm meal, I make poor choices for dinner. Same goes with my mid-morning meal. This pattern keeps me even. It allowed me to drop over 200 pounds. I have to trust it. If I'm going to call these meals, then anything outside of these planned meals would be snacking. 95% of the time, I do not snack. If I do snack, it would be after dinner and I do make smart choices...like SF popsicles or SF Jello. On my days off, it's an entirely different schedule. Up at 5:30, breakfast at 7:30, lunch at noon, dinner at 5pm. I usually go without snacking and often find myself skipping lunch due to being busy...which leads me to overeating at dinner. Not good.

So, how do I decide how I feel about snacking??? Smart Snacks? No, now I'm thinking that no snacking should remain. Oh goodness, I've got myself all confused. Kaye, I'm letting you figure this one out! You are the queen of all things WLS related, so I will trust you on this one :D

I've got a headache...

Oh goodness, I've got myself all confused. Kaye, I'm letting you figure this one out! You are the queen of all things WLS related, so I will trust you on this one

Glad I'm not the only one confused but I do like the idea that Kim is calling her eating routine "meals" because that is exactly what they are. Planned meals.

Being a diabetic it would better for me to have 5 meals a day instead of 3.

I know what got me obese. Trying to get around the rules of the game and finding loop holes. Doctors say no, so for me it is no.

This is a tough call, Kaye.

I eat 6 meals a day I don't call them snacks. I have trouble eating anything to large so the 6 meals works for me. They are all protein based and healthy.
I have on occasion allowed a splenda dessert or something like a Sugar Free snack. Never everyday just on special occasions. There are just some occasions where you just want to have something else. Self-contol snacking maybe is what I do. Not everyday but I do allow myself some freedom. So far it has worked for me. Good or bad it is what I do. What works for me may not work for everyone. I think we all have to figure out what works for us and our lifestyles.
Galelynn

To me there is a difference between frequent meals and snacking. Snacking to me means eating something other than good healthy food. Snacks are junk food. Perhaps this is just a semantics thing. I eat 3 meals a day and have 3 mini meals in between. Each one is (when I am really on track and not eating things I shouldn't) a nutritionally packed meal, mini or regular. Here is my eating plan for tomorrow for example.

Breakfast = hard boiled egg and half a cup of coffee
mini meal= string cheese
Lunch=3 oz chick breast 1 cup of green beans
mini meal= cottage cheese
Dinner= shrimp and steamed veggies
mini meal= small apple or sf jello with fruit & coolwhip free.

now if those mini meals are snacks, then they are snacks, but I perfer to call them mini meals because of their nutritional value. Snacks to me are foods that have NO nutritional value.

I've been told to have three meals and three snacks per day. I've also been told to have six meals per day. When I pressed for more details, I learned that they were using the terms interchangeably. Regardless of whether it is called a meal, a snack, or George, I eat six times per day. Each time it is a 1/2 cup serving that includes protein. And no drinking for 30 minutes before or after eating. I don't snack/munch/nibble/george/graze/eat or put any food in my mouth in between the six smart/planned consumption sessions. It works for me... I reached not only my "goal weight," but also what the charts suggest is my "ideal weight." I have leveled off within a two-pound range for about five months now.

Here is a question for everybody... I've also been instructed that each meal/snack/george should take 1/2 hour to eat. That is ok for peanuts, fruit, protein bars, etc., but for more traditional meals I like my food HOT. Does anybody know how to keep a 1/2 cup serving of food hot for 30 minutes? I think that defies the laws of physics. Some foods should not be ruined by putting them in a microwave!

The other tough part for me is to carve out six 30-minute blocks of time to eat, so I usually eat while doing something else.

I was told only three meals and no snacking period. That is what led me to being so huge. I thought that was cute, since I really didn't snack and didn't eat breakfast at all. I am learning. Most of the time when I feel the need to snack, it is head hunger or boredom. I have learned that when I am col, which seems to be constantly right now, I will eat more, I guess trying to replace the lost insulation. When it is just head hunger, I grab some gum and that seems to take care of it. But I specifically asked about smaller meals more often and was told that could lead to bigger meals at that frequency and that the surgery, and therefore I, would be a failure in the long run. Three meals only.

I was kind of frustrated by this topic originally, but it is becoming my favorite discussion on this board to date. Kim, I really agree with the evolution of your thinking, and I feel that it is echoed by the subsequent posts. I believe that the confusion comes from the idea of grazing and how blurry the lines between snacking and grazing become. I really like what MOUJ said. I will henceforth call my meals, "georgeing" (as opposed to "gorging" or "ralphing"). Thanks MOUJ! As Kim would say, "Brilliant!"

Now, I just need to figure out how many georges to have each day! Keep 'em coming!

OK - - -I'm the self-appointed mayor of the Neighborhood, but frankly I'm more confused than ever. Snacking is bad. Mini-meals (to me) seems silly, planned snacking is great unless I'm not hungry . . .. . . so what to do??? What to call it???

How about "Smart Listening"? If the body (not head) says "FEED ME" then how about feeding the body well? If the body says - I'm fine, work me - - that's cool too?

Smart Listening. Isn't that the point of this never-ending game?

Isn't that the essence of what we are looking at here - - - learning to honestly listen to our bodies and feed them well????

. . . .

help - - -anyone?????

Oh Lord help us all. When the Mayor of WLS doesn't have the answer, we are sure to sink. ;)

It just goes to show that there may not be a real answer. We are all individuals that follow slightly different eating programs. Even as an individual, I follow two different programs. One while I'm working and one for my days off. What's that about? :wacko:

I say we leave the four power tools as they are and NOT add a fifth! I'd hate to think that someone browsing through the site would stumble upon the tools, without seeing this discussion, and go..."Well, Kaye says to feed my body everytime it asks for food." You see, often times, my brain does a darned good impersonation of my body. I'm guessing that many patients have brains that do the same thing. Head hunger is my downfall.

I had a lovely George evening. MOUJ...as for taking 30 minutes to consume the meal, I discontinued that practice at my two year mark. I still eat slowly, but finish in about 15 minutes. By eating quicker, I was feeling fuller, faster. I eat more than a half cup at my George, but there are times when I will stop after 5 bites if I feel full. This has happened with baked chicken on more than one occasion. Never with eggs or tuna. Gotta love that dry protein!

Oh - I forgot to address the time limit thing for MOUJ.

That 30-minutes/meal is for newbies and the phase of weight loss. Indications are good that the further out you are, the quicker you eat the fulller and sooner you feel your pouch. That doesn't mean shove & run, just don't linger. As a maintainer if you linger while chewing food well you can eat more and feel less satiated. And guess what happens then? You eat more and weight gain results. I have yet to see a bariatric center comment on this but the grass roots buzz is long term post-ops eat more quickly than newbies (less quickly than morbidly obese) and feel satiation sooner.



As for Kaye having all the answers - thanks Kim - but if I had all the answers I wouldn't have needed to start a support community for long-term WLS to get me through my day!!!!!

I agree that maybe we should leave it as is... Everyone knows that mindless snacking will get you no where. We are all different in our lifestyles so maybe saying No snacking is the best. We will all adjust it to our lives.
Galelynn :D

This is so true, Galelynn. So why, when we know this, does it sometimes get the best of us? Wouldn't the answer to that be the million dollar prize!

:)

I very much appreciated this discussion and I learned a whole lot. MOUJ, about taking your full 30 minutes:I agree with Kim that this must be a temporary state of affairs. My post-op guide from my surgeon states this. I was doing this at the beginning to learn how quickly I could take in the 3 ounces of grub/George. Now that I have an inkling of what I can and cannot tolerate, I don't have to go as slowly.

Interestingly enough (or not),even 2 of the surgeons in my surgeon's practice don't agree on this one! Anyway, I eat the protein first and usually my veggies get cold so I nuke 'em for a few seconds. It's like having 2 separate courses, but at least the food is warm (hot).

At restaurants it's a gamble as to whether the George/meal will be palatable by the time I'm finished. In public, I eat a LOT MORE SLOWLY. Something about being in public makes it harder for me to peacefully get my entire George docked in the hanger... It's not one of my favorite aspects of my new life, but it's a price I'm willing to pay to feel good before, during and after the entire George.

As a side note: do any of the rest of you feel giddy/eurphoric after you eat the exact right amount and item? I do! It's the craziest thing but I get plum silly sometimes when I hit the perfect combo. It's a rush that I'm constantly jonesing for...

I believe it gets the best of us because we are human. No one is perfect all the time. If we were wouldn't life be boring. I believe that all is not lost from making a wrong choice. Just pick yourself up and dust off the crumbs and start over. Beating yourself up over it is not going to change the fact that you did it. Snacking is a struggle for everyone not just WLS people. Just because we had surgery doesn't change our habits. We have to work on it everyday of our lifes. We feel more pressure because of the surgery and what others may think if we fail... WE ARE STRONG WE ARE INVINCIBLE WE ARE WOMAN!!!!
And MEN didn't want to leave out you fellas...
Galelynn :D

Are you kidding me??? I email Kaye all the time to let her know when I'm having a "great food day". I love it also when I've consumed the perfect amount of carbs/protein/fat and I exercise feeling like I'm getting the most bang for my buck. It's like when you've driven a 4 cylinder car all of your life and you find yourself sitting in a V8. The power is incredible!

:P

Kim & Kaye = Soul sisters!!!

Monday: Kim = good food day; Kaye = bad food day
Tuesday: Kaye = Freakishly good food day; Kim = challenged but not beaten food day!!!

Bottom line = Doing the best we can on any given day!


:blush: :blush: :blush:

No matter how far you have gone on a wrong road, turn back-Turkish proverb

I made some bad food choices yesterday. (those damned chips and salsa!) I threw away the remainder of the bag so I won't be tempted today! Going in the right direction today!!!

Any one know how to make zuchini chips? I need a healthy chip substitute recipe!

Any one know how to make zuchini chips? I need a healthy chip substitute recipe!

Now I remember a conversation going on about zuchini chips between Tami, Galelyn and Jodie if I not mistaking. Between the 3 of them someone mad zuchinni chips.

I'ld love to know how too.

Sounds like a recipe that needs to be entered for the LAWLS cookbook. :D

I think Regina is the one that makes them and we all need to know how. THere was also Diane mentioned taking fresh grated parmesan, I believe, and making little piles on a cookie sheet and baking them till crisp for cheese crisps to munch on, and I imagine that that would be good with salsa as well! Meliss, you should be able to give us some advice on banana chips, can't you? We need a dehydrator!

Can't make zucchini chips, but I'm telling you what folks: bbq soybeans have really been a great chip/popcorn/crispy substitute for me...

I've read all the latest posts and I too try to eat 6 times a day. used to be bad about forgetting to eat until I got severely anemic. now I watch it pretty close.



Regina--you can make chips out of cheddar chs cubes. just nuke em and pat dry just like eating cheezits if you have a dehydrator you can make any type of chip out of veggies or also can be dried in the oven for a looooongggggg time. not enough starch in them to bake into chips like potatoes

I don't know how to make zuchini chips but would love to!!!

Calling all recipe search engines!!!

Thanks Diane for the cheese recipe.

I LOVE zuchinni chips!

I used to make them in my dehydrator. I'd slice them really thin, spray them with a little cooking spray and sprinkle with garlic salt. You could also sprinkle some parmesan cheese on them if you want.

You can make them the same way in the oven; just use the lowest temperature your oven will go and cook them until they are dry and crispy.

Andie,

I miss seeing you but love the little dog!

I find I snack smartly at times, but I focus on not grazing. If i have a small piece of chocolate that is a "snack", not a meal... But I plan it in accordingly. For my program, I am allowed to eat 3-5 or 6 times a day... snacks are viewed as meals.. however, sometimes I don't feel like eating a meal so i have a piece of cheese and some chocolate[s]. I think we could change the term to no grazing. But that is just me!

Marla, do be careful... it sounds like you eat a quite a bit of chocolate. Right now it may not effect your weightloss (that you can tell) but in the long run it can - even sf chocolate. Extra, empty calories (sf does NOT mean low calorie), make sure you focus on protein.
As far as the snacking goes, I find I do best with planned snacks too.

~Lucinda

Thanks for your concern. I know it sounds like I eat alot of it... but trust I really don't. I try to limit empty calories planned or not to no more then 3 times a week. I am not perfect but most of the time it works. I don't have cravings...and small bit doesn't seem to bother me. believe me even though I plan for it, if i don't want eat.. I don't eat it!

However, I really should avoid empty calories on a much more limited basis... like once a week. I have no intention of setting myself up to fail!!!

I just reread my post... That is not how I meant it Oy vey... i was just giving an example of a snack I have on ocassions. I don't do that for every snack. I would be so sick... Sorry for the confuison!

I am fairly new. Just 3 weeks post-op. My doctor says 3 meals a day and absolutely no grazing on carbs. Of course that is after I am able to eat enough in just 3 meals to meat my nutritional needs. Right now I find that I have to eat about every 3 hours to keep from getting sick to my stomach and shakey. I can still only take in about 2oz at any one time. It's sad as I watch my cousin who is 1 1/2 years out. She has gone back to eating the way she used to eat before surgery. The amount she can eat is unbelievable. I pray that that will not be me as time goes by. What is the take on french fried sweet potatoes? Do they fall under the healthy snack or are they too much carbs? Just wondering.

Sharon aka NewBeginnings

Hi Sharon! Your dr. gives you good advice on no carb-grazing. Follow it! :) And your cousin, bless her, gives you a good example of out-eating the WLS to defeat it. Remember these words: If you eat the same things that made you obese before surgery, they will make you obese after surgery.

As for fried sweet potatoes - oops! That's a recipe for dumping disaster because of the natural sugar in the sweet potato and the grease from the frying. Run, don't walk, away from those! Our own Sgt. Pretty Lady (Kim) had an unpleasant experience with this.

Kaye

Thanks for the advice on the fried sweet potatoes. That's too bad as I loved them before surgery. Anyway, I knew that I would have to make sacrifices if I wanted to loss this weight. I'll have to find something else that I love to eat instead. I love the feedback from this site.

Sharon aka NewBeginnings

I vote for smart listening! If you have ever watched a three year old eat, most of them only eat what they need and then they are off to play ! They listen to their tummies and when they are hungry, they say so. They always leave food on their plates, they don't care. They have better things to do than consume too much food... :) . But they often eat more than three times a day... :rolleyes:

Only as we get older do we over ride those signals we are born with. Over time we become greedy with our food, or take comfort in food. The mentality of more is always better takes over...and well, we all know where that gets us!

I remember after the initial period after wls was over (where I could only consume 3-4 oz.) and I started pushing my limits a little bit. I was still programmed to finish my food ect... I had to analyze WHY I felt I needed to eat more when I knew I was fine on a smaller amount. I think the reason a lot of our Doctors have no snacking rules, is to reiterate the fact we still only need a certain amount of food to exist. Most people can consume so much extra under the justification that it is only a snack...so it doesn't count. I think they see so many people regain through snacking. But, that doesn't mean there aren't times we don't legitimately need food in between meals. That's why I think listening to our bodies is a skill we need to relearn.

Through this whole journey determining head hunger and actual hunger has always been one of the hardest things for me.

And I still find, when my body says I am hungry between meals, I am usually thirsty! That is something to keep in mind. Thirst is usually registered as hunger in our bodies.

I do find if I am busy, I generally don't get nearly as hungry as when I am bored. So I am trying to keep busy lately! And on the days I really need something between the traditional three meals a day, I do better if I consider them meals. I am more likely to eat healthier, viewing them as a "meal" than a snack. Too many evil things in the "snack mentality" for me...

I struggle just like everyone else! Some days I do better than others...but everyday is a new day , I forgive myself, and start over, no matter what!

If we all just ate like three year olds, had no emotional attachment to our food...and played more in between...

Mae :D

How right you are, Mae. They stop to refuel and when the fueling is done, it is done and off they go to burn it. I wish that I had the same energy as my 4 year old nephew. And they eat more veggies and meat than sweets, though if that is around, they want it so we try not to keep it around or make sure it is sugar free as the youngest really gets wired on sugar!

3 year olds will, however consistently make poor food choices! They also do wacky stuff like pull their dresses up over their heads and twirl in public, wet themselves, and throw themselves on the floor and howl when they don't get the sugar that they crave! So be careful about giving your inner 3 year old too much of the control. Gotta have a grown up running the ship at all times, the 3 year old is the fun-loving passenger who amuses everyone else or annoys everyone else when they are not guided by a loving parent.