Sometimes, I run across things on the internet that scare me a little bit or a lot. I don't go looking for negatives about WLS, but I do have google search daily for blogs or links about WLS and often it is the blog of a post op or pre-op or even a news article saying positive things. Then there are the times I find things like this . And the things she says I find a little bit scary.

How much of it is fact and how much is just more insanity from those who never plan on having WLS but also make the decision to be so vocally against it that they are turning small possibilities into "facts" that they blog about just to scare pre-ops.

Thanks for always giving me your opinions on the scary stuff! It helps so much!

Well...
consider the source. After all, it's coming from the activist site "Size Acceptance"
There are some stories that are out there that are meant to rile folks up.

WLS does far more good than "they" will ever know.
I would even say it is "they" that are in denial.
When I was obese, I had many mind games to justify my weight and tricks to convince myself
that I wasn't an outcast. When I would sit on a plane at 314 lbs. and needed an extension and prayed to
God that the person that would sit next to me would be thin to give me more room to breathe - I felt
like I took up too much room on the planet (much less the plane.) Once they even re-sat me to
redistribute the weight on the plane! UGH

Not to mention all my health issues (no need to list, I am sure most of us have/had them.)

I guess I could go on. There are risks - we didn't go into this mindless and ignorant.
Most surgeons educate us and risks and health care.

*shrug*

I for one and happy to be 125 less than I was . . (and still losing)

Nancy

Kimbre,
I applaud you for searching for as many answers as you can get before your WLS. You do have to take everything you find for what it is & where it comes from.
I noted that the "recent death" the writer spoke of was in 2001. That is 7 years ago. The advances in medicine and in WLS surgery in that 7 years are huge! Also, I researched for 10 years before I finally had my procedure. This is the first time I ever heard of a meningitis death being blamed on WLS.
Another thing I was going to say, but Nancy got there first, is to consider the source. The writer is obviously very pro-fat. If she is trying to convince people that it is OK to be MO, and she obviously is, why wouldn't she make WLS sound like the devil's work?
When we go into this with our eyes wide open, we have decided that, for us, the positives far outweigh the negatives. Are there dangers? Of course! Any major surgery has many posibile dangers and can even lead to death. But, for me, it was worth the risk. I am so happy that I had the surgery. I feel better...I am enjoying life so much more...I believe WLS has given me back my life.
You have to make your own decision. Base it on medical facts, not on the ramblings of anyone who is very pro-one-side-or-the-other...medical facts won't lead you astray. And, make sure you have a lot of confidence in your surgeon and the program. That, in itself, will carry you a long way.
Best wishes as you continue your research.

I agree with Nancy and Bejean...

The thing that jumped out at me was the year 2001...so I say, just as the others did, consider the source! For whatever reason she sees wls as a "bad" thing...for me it was not so much about "looking" good but "feeling" better and being healthier....just so happens with the loss I do look and feel better AND I am healthier than I was when I was 30yrs old.

Don't allow any of us to determine how you feel about the surgery, and don't allow anyone steal the joy you may be feeling with the anticipation of wls...you are so much better prepared than I was...stay encouraged!

Blessings!

Hi,
I'm a pre op as well. The article you linked was the most negative one I've read. After it sank in, I just sort of smiled and dismissed it as a rant by a recently discovered demographic (for me anyway), the "militantly morbidly obese"....hope you take that in the sense it was intended. There are extremists no matter what you are reading about, aren't there ?
Not one person with whom I've talked about RNY has had anything negative or regretful to say about their decision to have the surgery or what they went through in the process before and after. A lady at a meeting I went to tonight had surgery 8 years ago, is still maintaining her weight, and is still encouraging us to follow her example. I didn't get the sense she was, by any means, on the receiving end of any money trail....

Hope you are finding reassurance here in the neighborhood, as I am.


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These kinds of articles are meant to bring with them the 'shock' factor. A well informed person can file them away where they belong. What is scarey is that there are many people out there who will be scared away by reading such an article and never know the real truth about WLS.

It is important to understand when reading information about this or any subject on the web that you need to believe only reputable sources. Anyone can say anything they want to on the web. They don't need credentials to give opinions. What they don't do is they don't state that they are NOT an authority on the subject and people read and believe anyway.

This is a personal decision we all make. I for one will never regret having made it. My quality of life has improved dramatically and I look forward to a productive future that I would not have had without this surgery. I can only hope that everyone makes an 'informed' decision.

There is much good in the size acceptance movement, and I think that we all DO need to accept and love ourselves, whatever our size happens to be. There are obese people who are healthy and happy and they should not live in a world where they are judged and condemned and strapped with negative bias.

However, what I feel that some of the people who tout "acceptance" fail to see is that acceptance is a two way street. I need to be accepted and respected too for my choice and my path.

Kimbre, are you a little bit chubby or are you MORBIDLY obese? Are you going through all this research because you want a tiny body? Are you healthy and just wanting to change your SIZE? I didn't think so. I don't believe anyone on here did either. And I don't think any wls surgeon would approve such a thing.

For me the surgery was not about my SIZE. It was about LIVING. I wanted to live. Doctors don't perform this surgery to change size. They do it to save lives.

If someone is dying of cancer, we don't have people telling them to just go ahead and accept the cancer as who they are and we don't belittle them for putting up the fight of their lives. We run marathons to raise money to help them fight. We buy pink kitchen appliances and breath mints to help them fund research to fight harder.

If your health is suffering because of your obesity, if you are truly morbidly obese, that is the same as saying you are "terminally fat." It's killing you. You WILL die. That's the morbid part of the morbidly obese. That's death.

People who want to scare others from fighting for their lives still think of wls as a cosmetic luxury option for people who are too lazy to go on a real diet. That's just friggin' ignorant, that's what that is. They've missed the point. We're not risking death to change our size--we're facing a certain death down and trying to fight it down and regain a chance at life. People should be trying to help us fight harder, not shaming us for trying to live.

The bottom line: yeah, this is scary. You could die, you could suffer. Things can go wrong. Now a days, that happens a lot less often. Surgeons don't want to lose folks. Looks bad for their record. Now a days, they screen people a lot more carefully to make sure that they're a good candidate for the surgery. If you follow your doctor's rules, the death rate for most surgeons is less than 1%. And if you follow the rules of the lifestyle, the odds are good that you'll be much much healthier than you would be without the surgery. And if you are morbidly obese, then, well, it's not really that tough of a decision is it?

Good luck and God bless. No matter what route you take, I hope that you'll always feel accepted and respected.

Thanks for all the responses. This isn't the first time I have come across miss Sue Widemark on the internet and a lot of it is more recent rantings. Though she did concern me when she spoke of the person who invented RNY as saying it wasn't safe. Though in Googling this surgeon's name I could not find the quote in question, but maybe I didn't look hard enough.

I guess I just don't understand the stance of the FA movement. I do think accepting yourself can be a wonderful thing and dangit, I wish I could do it at my current size but I can't! I want more for my own life, for the lives of my kids and my husband. I'm tired of watching life from the sidelines. With that being said, why do those in the FA movement feel the need to ridicule us? Do they feel threatened? I accept them for who they are so I fail to see why they cannot do the same. I'm not flaming them for their beliefs.

I think that they don't understand the morbid nature of some people's obesity because they are not morbidly obese, just obese. They think we're doing this because of size and for vanity's sake-they don't understand that we're trying to not die.

If they understood this, they would see that it's not about accepting our size, it's about living. And then they would not feel threatened.

Hi Kimbre,
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but to put it out there as previously unstated "fact" is nothing
short of irresponsible. In that article the author says, " Since she died of meningitis (they think), the WLS community is saying that her death is not WLS related. But the chances of a young person getting that sick and going like right now, are very slim. " Please take the time to Google the meningitis deaths occurring in High Schools and hospitals... rapid onset and almost always fatal within a day or two.
There was a girl who died just over the weekend... healthy up to that time... 12 years old.. horrible shock. Here's the news link.
http://www.ecanadanow.com/news/health/12-y...s-20080212.html
I surely would have died from diabetes, high blood pressure or hopelessness had I NOT had WLS. The quality of my life
has improved in every way immeasurably! Please listen to those who are working a consistent program of life
improvement and maintenance rather than ney sayers who have not had the opportunity to experience this gift.
I am not in denial... I am in AWE of this new life I now have the opportunity to live to the fullest!
Be well. You're wise to want to make an informed decision, but I'm not sure of the value of frightening yourself along
the way with spurious information and unfounded opinions.
SO glad you're here... and thanks for the brave post!

I couldn't have said it better! And just as an aside, obesity is the 2nd leading cause of death in the US. I have never regretted having RNY and I don't believe I ever will as it has given me a new life! Can't ask for more than that. Also on the news yesterday a 13 year old died of meningitis and her immume system was just fine, but these things, as horrible as they are happen. It has absolutely nothing to do with WLS. Just remember that you have to be OK with your decision. No one else can make it for you. Good Luck!

I'm 21 1/2 years out and living a healthy life. I did not have RNY -- I had stapling only. But I'm here to tell you that abundant healthy life after WLS is possible.

Now I've said that, I want to add that I'm merely an anecdote in the WLS field. Many of you who have been around here awhile may have told others "Oh, I know a lady who had hers 21 years ago, got to a healthy weight and is doing great!" And that would be true. But I'm not "the norm"; the fact is, I've never met another long-term WLSer that's done as well as I have. I worked hard -- that's true. I continue to work hard -- that's true too. But I had good timing -- WLS before too many co-morbidities settled in -- good general health, great genes, and yes, some dumb luck too! One story out of so many.

There are other stories too! Some quite horrible. We have a Neighbor on our site here -- Stu -- who was terribly sick following surgery. His situation was scary, dangerous, life-threatening. He pulled through -- great inner strength, strong sense of humor, great family support. He could have easily had a different outcome.

Truth is, nobody knows when they go to lay down on that surgeon's table, just how the chips will fall. Your surgeon will list the risks for you -- not as general disclaimers, but because these are REAL RISKS that have befallen REAL PEOPLE. People who dreamed of an outcome similar to mine and instead fell into a nightmare.

You have to know that!

And -- you already know that if those horrible things DON'T happen to you (and they probably won't, but no guarantees, right?), in order to succeed with WLS you will have to commit and work hard. For the rest of your life! Your life will change. Even with the greatest success, some of the changes in your life will not be pleasant.

If you want to lose weight, keep it off and live a healthy life, you will have to change the way you approach food and life. Whether or not you choose WLS! You will have to work hard either way. WLS is a leg up -- it's a tool -- it can level the playing field. But there is no success unless you treat it with respect and use it correctly. And, used wisely or not, there is a price to be paid by losing the ability to consume food the way the rest of the world does.

It's easier for some people to join a Fat Acceptance movement and try to make peace with their obesity. More power to them! Obesity is such a horrible condition to live with. There's no easy way out!

This is not a happy "Join hands with us - you can do it" post. If you are considering WLS, you need to consider ALL the facts. And then make the best choice for YOU.

Judy

I don't think it's any different than any other movement. You have whites bashing blacks and blacks bashing whites, working moms bashing stay-at-home moms & stay-at-home moms bashing working moms, Catholics bashing Protestants & vice-versa, Protestants bashing Jews & vice-versa, Moslems bashing the rest of the world and the rest of the world bashing Moslems.... It just goes on & on & on. No matter what the movement is, whether it is right or wrong, there are extremists on both sides. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle of the extremes. (Disclaimer: if you belong to any of the groups I just mentioned, I didn't mean anything negative to you)

I read on the internet a few days ago... that doctors autopsied 10 people who had gastric bypass and died. All ten were prone to pulmonary embolism. Five died as a direct result of the gastric bypass itself, keeping in mind that they were prone to the pulmonary embolism (blood clot?) and the other five were related to their obesity. You always take a risk when having ANY surgery.

I knew there was a chance I could have died when I had surgery. But I didn't have any chidlren, no husband, and decided "I am not really LIVING anyway." Obesity had stolen so much that I didn't want to live another ten, twenty, thirty or forty years, however many the Lord decided I had, in that condition.

Every person has to weigh out their situation and know its what they want to do in my opinion.

I'll warn you right now that I am about to get long-winded, so be prepared, and please accept my apology in advance.

I found this to be a most interesting article, written, no doubt, by somebody who believes as strongly about what she has written as we each feel about our own experiences and opinions on the WLS topic. I susbect that this group, "Size Acceptance," does a lot of good work and helps a lot of people. I do believe that she is mis-informed on some issues, and has mis-interpreted some of the data about WLS.

I would like to comment on some of the statements in this article...

1. "Today's surgeries are pretty much for keepsies. They can be reversed but only with difficulty and a lot of risk involved."

That is why we take it so seriously. That is why we do so much homework prior to having our surgeries. Anybody remember Buffy prior to her surgery? She was setting records for posting questions in this neighborhood because she wanted to be as well informed as possible. That is why we still see a lot of "pre-ops" in here asking questions, and that is why we answer them with what can best be described as "brutal honesty." That is why we come to this neighborhood to share with one another how to make our surgeries work for us. I remember telling my wife, on the way to the hospital, that, "our lives are about to change permanently and irreversibly." We are also fortunate in the last few years that there options for those who want a lower-risk, less permanent yet still affective alternative with the lap-band.

2. "...her immune system was pretty much gone. Not surprising after major surgery to partially destroy the GI tract and then, starving for a year."

Funny, I used to get sick a LOT more prior to my WLS, and it used to last a LOT longer. I disagree with her use of the word "destroy"... We've just been re-plumbed. As for starving for a year, well I haven't starved since my surgery. My Center went to great effort to ensure that we were taught to eat enough of the right stuff.

3. "One clinic said they had done some 8,000 RNYs since 1980. Even at a few hundred a year for that many years, there should be all kinds of folks with gastric bypasses walking around, but they seemed to all have disappeared."

There are nearly 300,000,000 people in the United States. They are searching for 0.0027% of the population. Early RNY patients were probably not put on a schedule of annual follow-up. Those early surgeries were probably performed by general surgeons rather than weight-loss centers, so they are not likely to have tracked their patients. The fact that they cannot find 0.0027% of the American population does not suggest that they have all died from their WLS.

4. "...warning them that post op RNY patients may be leeching calcium from the bones and not absorbing it from what they eat..."

I think that this is well understood by today's WLS community, and for those of us who chose to follow the rules established by our surgeons, we are taking Calcium supplements THROUGHOUT THE DAY at a rate that our bodies can absorb.

5. "The longevity after a Billroth II is expected to be from 15 to 30 years."

I don't know enough about a Billroth II to understand just how closely it resembles the RNY procedure. While admitting that I don't have any basis to support this, I just DO NOT BELIEVE that my expected longevity is another 12 to 27 years.

6. "What Carnie Wilson calls "a bit of soreness after surgery" is excrutiating pain requiring morphene."

Taken from the well-known medical journal, "Duh." My surgery hurt like h*ll... I had an open procedure, and have a long vertical from my sternum to belly button. I was glad for that blessed morphene pump. IT WAS SURGERY!!! SURGERY HURTS!!! I'm feeling much better now, thank you.

7. "he saw WLS post ops come into the emergency room quite often with rather scary and painful complaints."

And, I'm sure he saw a lot of non-WLS post ops come into the emergency room quite often with rather scary and painful complaints.

That being said, I have not been without my own problems... a surgical hernia was repaired about 15 months after my WLS. Six months later I was back in the hospital with a blockage. That was no fun at all. None of these surprised me as I had been warned that these were possible complications. Next weekend I may land back in the emergency room with a broken leg from skiing, that I would not have gotten if I hadn't had WLS. If I break my leg skiing next week, do I then blame my WLS?

8. "Knowing that they will likely return to the hospital for repeat surgeries or that one piece of food, carelessly chewed could give them hours of excrutiating pain... knowing that osteoporosis is a probability... that they might have to administer themselves B12 shots for the rest of their lives... their after surgery diet will be very restricted in both type of food and quantity..."

Yes, we have to chew better. Yes, eating the wrong thing sometimes hurts. Yes, we have to take vitamins. Yes, we eat differently. Is it worth it? That is a personal question, and the answer is probably different for each of us. I've had a lot of people say that they couldn't live without their comfort foods, their chocolate, their sodas, etc. Kudos to them for recognizing that this may not be for them. Was it worth it for me? Take a look through my photo gallery and tell me what you think.

9. "...to keep the weight off they need to exercise and knowing that following such a program consistantly long term would have the same effect without surgery..."

To the first part, I say, "Duh!" To the comment that following such a program consistantly long term would have the same effect without surgery... well, that is just not realistic. I once lost about 60 pounds by nearly starving myself and exercising 90 minutes in the morning and 90 minutes in the evening. That's THREE HOURS A DAY! That is not something that can be maintained for the long term. Plus, being so much larger, I found that I got injured much more often. Whenever I reduced my exercise level below the 3 hour per day level, I would see weight come back. While I agree that eating better and exercising more can improve one's health, it is rarely a long-term miracle cure for obesity.

10. "...the quality of life which they feel surgery will give them simply isn't there - it's a myth..."

I'm speachless. Again, please refer to my photo gallery.

11. "...WLS is a business (and yes, it IS a business). ...The surgeons don't want this kind of full knowledge consent because it would drastically cut down their business."

Again, Duh! Sure, doctors make money by providing medical services. Personally, I hope that Doctors are always well compensated so that we continue to attract the best minds and the best people to the profession. To suggest that mainstream practice would provide medical services that they know are harmful to their patients is an irresponsible statement. Are there Doctors out there that put profits before their patients? Probably. Are they the minority? ABSOLUTELY!!! And I suggest that they are a VERY SMALL minority, and these types are generally run out of the profession by their peers.

This discussion makes me think of the heart surgery that my Dad had in November. He had a 38-year old artificial heart valve replaced with a newer valve. It turns out that the design of the old heart valve, that was a state-of-the-art device in the 1960's, can cause long term damage to the heart because pressure losses across the valve make the heart work harder. So, this old heart valve damaged Dad's heart. Should we condemn the practice of replacing damaged heart valves with artificial valves that can damage the heart when used over four decades? NO!!! I'll assure you that if Dad had never received his first artificial heart valve in 1963 (at age 23) his heart would have never sustained the damage that we are seeing today. Of course he never would have seen his 24th birthday either, but at least his heart would have been healthy for the rest of his life. Last week he turned 68, and he and his damaged heart spent the day with his grandchildren. This article sounds like those who would condemn the use of artificial heart valves because they can make the heart work harder.

Kimbre, you are doing a great thing by investigating this procedure from all sides. Please keep doing so. You have an entire neighborhood pulling for you, and who will support whatever decision you make. Please, never hesitate to ask any questions, or to share your thoughts and concerns.

After reading everyones comments, all I can add is a resounding AMEN.

Thank you all so much for your amazing honesty. I have to say that I asked a similar question (different source of information I found on the internet) and was pretty well fussed at for even reading anything negative. Needless to say, I no longer frequent that board. We have to look at the negatives that are said and be able to dissect them if need be to discover if there is any truth at all in the statements. It's hard and I'm so thankful I have all of you to help me with the process of seperating truth from fiction.

My decision has already been made as I am awaiting insurance approval, so am I getting occasionally bouts of cold feet? Of course! Reading anything negative makes me again question if I am doing the right thing. What does amaze me is how one negative article can quickly and for a moment overshadow all the positives I have heard from people here, other places on the internet and from people I know "in real life".

Anyway, again, thank you for allowing me to ask the questions and to get the opinions, without feeling ridiculed for asking them. God bless you all!